Greetings, Sanderfans and Cosmere Chickens, and welcome to another Monday morning Wind and Truth preview chapter read-along discussion. This week, we’re diving into chapters 10 and 11, picking up once again with Kaladin and Shallan. We know some of you might be wishing for more of a mix of POVs, but fear not… as you’ve surely noticed, we’re on Day 1 of the book. Perhaps you can guess how things will go from here?
Note that this post will possibly contain full Cosmere spoilers, so beware if you aren’t caught up on all Cosmere content. And please remember, when posting or commenting about these preview chapters on social media, to follow your platform’s spoiler rules. We’ve had a couple of things spoiled for people who are waiting for the book to arrive in December and we want to ensure that this doesn’t happen. Your comments here, however, don’t need to be spoiler tagged so feel free to comment to your heart’s content down below!
Let’s get to it!
Paige’s Summary and Commentary
Chapter 10 is titled “Book-Quartermaster” and the epigraph (which Lyndsey quotes in full below), mentions that Szeth’s quest “would shape all our futures.” This is intriguing because it almost reads as if Szeth’s quest has more bearing on the future of Roshar than the contest of champions. And it kind of shifts the urgency, at least for me, from that contest to Kaladin and Szeth’s buddy cop adventure. I can’t wait to find out who wrote this book. I’m still thinking Jasnah or Sigzil. What say you all, now that Szeth himself has been eliminated as a possibility?
This chapter starts with Kaladin following Syl to what he thinks of as the scribe’s supply depot. Here, a very snooty “book-quartermaster” reluctantly places a book on the counter. It’s a book made with moveable type—pretty cool, huh?—and Syl tells Kaladin that it’s a copy of The Way of Kings. She said she got it for him because she’s his scribe, and it’s so amazingly sweet that he doesn’t complain about its weight, and simply thanks her.
Then Syl asks the book-quartermaster for her other things and the woman sends a runner girl to fetch them. While they’re waiting, a woman passes wearing a type of uniform the book-quartermaster identifies as a ko-takama, female warrior clothing. Syl instantly changes her outfit to match and when the woman suggests she wear leggings beneath it, Syl guesses that’s so that people won’t see her “chull.” She then teases the woman about creating a chull head, down there, because humans seemed so embarrassed by what was between their legs that Syl assumed it must be ugly. Hence, a chull head. Then she tells the woman that sometimes she feeds it grass and scares the old biddy away. I found this exchange to be particularly funny, because it’s so obvious that Syl is messing with the haughty woman.
The book-quartermaster brings back paper, ink, and pens, which sound like quills crafted from feathers since Kaladin has heard that they’re made of chicken parts. ::giggle:: He’s impressed when Syl manages to pick up one of the pens which, really, is quite impressive for a spren. She’s really growing by leaps and bounds! But then the bitchy—can I say bitchy here?—book-quartermaster watches Syl painstakingly write a letter and witheringly congratulates her on having the skill of a four-year-old. Kaladin is understandably angry and, taking a minute to consider his words, asks what she’s afraid of—since she must be afraid of something to treat people in such a way. He tells her he feels sorry for her and suggests that she talk to someone about her problems and try to grow… and the woman actually attracts a shamespren. So hopefully, Kaladin’s words got through to her.
Syl happily tells Kaladin that now she can actually be his scribe and then corrects his use of the term “book-quartermaster” by explaining that the woman is the head librarian, of the library (and not “the scribes’ supply depot”). She doesn’t tease him, though, just calls him adorable. And they fly off, presumably to Rlain’s celebration.
Chapter 11 is titled “Musicspren” and the epigraph states that the Wind swore there was a contest in Shinovar that was equally as vital as the contest of champions. What do you think Sanderfans? Is “the one that the Wind swore was equally vital” referring to Szeth’s contest or something else?
I’m not sure we’ve ever heard of a musicspren before. Let me check the previous books… Hold, please. ::elevator music:: And I’m wrong. There are musicspren in the Prologue of The Way of Kings (and also in Oathbringer), which took the form of spinning translucent ribbons. They sound pretty. Let’s see what they look like in Shadesmar.
Yes, Shadesmar—meaning we’re back to Shallan who, when we left her, had somehow manifested Radiant, who then stabbed a Fused with a Shardblade. The Fused had named himself Abidi the Monarch. Oh, gee, how novel… a Fused who’s full of themself. ::rolls eyes:: Anyway… Unfortunately, Radiant’s Shardblade didn’t burn out his eyes—which makes me wonder if it was only an approximation of a Shardblade—or pierce his gemheart. It didn’t seem to do much of anything, really, as Abidi dodges Radiant, swinging for his neck. He does seem amazed at Radiant’s presence, however, and asks Shallan if she’s learned substantiation. Which (I checked) is something we’ve definitely never heard of before now.
“I thought your kind had forbidden that skill. Odium will need to know.”
Hmm… very interesting. Substantiation sounds like creating a substance, perhaps. Shallan does manifest Radiant from, well, nothing. It seems to wear her down to do it, but somehow she does it. Could it be something that, with her increasing skill with her surge of Illumination, she’s only able to do in Shadesmar? Could she possibly do it in the Physical Realm? I have so many questions. But let’s continue.
Abidi the Obnoxious flees and the bubble collapses as the illusion of Radiant disappears. Shallan searches through the beads, wanting to find one that represents a room and, voila, she finds one immediately.
A part of her mind acknowledged that it was incredibly—even supernaturally—convenient to find the exact bead she needed so quickly.
That is a bit odd, considering she used to have to search and search to find something she could use for a given situation, and she just happened to find this bead instantly? Interesting. What’s stranger is that she hears Adolin in her mind calling her name and she knows just which direction to go to find him in the beads.
Feeling overwhelmed, Shallan walked to him, still clutching the bead. It seemed… eager to be helpful.
What?
She’d never felt such a sensation from a bead before. And what was that voice that had led her toward Adolin?
Okay, I’m really curious about this. The bead is eager? Shallan is encountering all of these new abilities and sensations and I’m wondering if she’s about to level up.
Then Shallan has a moment where she wonders if Adolin is real or one of her illusions. It’s kind of sad that she can’t trust her own mind. I know what that’s like and, I assure you, it’s no fun to wonder if something is real or if you made it up.
She starts to move the bead room to go help Drehy and the others and suddenly, a face forms from the beads on one side of the room. Okay, this is hella creepy, Sanderfans. Big time. Sorry to keep quoting the text I’m supposed to be summarizing but I’m so excited about what’s happening with Shallan!
In her mind, a woman’s voice speaking to the rhythms.
I will kill you. I will burn everything you love. I will exact vengeance in a river of blood!
Adolin’s voice was a panicked but distant sound. Darkness tunneled around Shallan.
I will rampage across this world until not a single human remains drawing breath. Betrayers, thieves, monsters! I will send you back to the flames from whence you—
Adolin slammed an oversized, massive greatsword into the face. An eruption of beads burst from it, like a wellspring of water. The entire cavern disintegrated.
What. In. Braize. Was. That? It wasn’t some illusion that Shallan’s tired mind conjured up. Adolin saw it and, presumably, heard it, too. And when he stabbed the face with his sword, it disappeared, along with the voice. So bizarre… and I am here for it! Give us more creepy faces and voices, Brandon!
Shallan again reaches for a bead, looking for something like Navani’s traveling sphere (used in Rhythm of War, if you recall) and, just like that, she finds one. This is more than just coincidence, as she thinks. This is something more. I swear, she’s about to level up. I actually thought that’s what she was doing in Chapter 9 when she talked about being afraid, when Radiant asked her, “What are the Words?” Did that not seem like Radiant was asking her to speak a truth and level up? I mean, is it just me or did anyone else get that from her admitting her fears? Her words weren’t accepted… maybe she needs more truth than just being afraid of herself? How much more real can one get beyond admitting that?
Moving on… They emerge from the bead ocean and again engage the Fused. Abidi the Arrogant goes after Shallan but is stopped by Adolin, who stabs the Fused through his side. He tries to fly away but runs out of Voidlight and crashes into the bead ocean. Shallan manifests the illusion of Radiant again, who uses a Shardbow to shoot large arrows at the Heavenly Ones, who retreat.
Shallan forms a room again and moves them all down to the bottom of the bead ocean where they are able to retrieve the spren. Fearing the Fused would pursue them into the ocean, Shallan moves the beads in the direction of the Azimir Oathgate. Adolin is, understandably, concerned about Gallant and asks if he would still be going in the same direction. Drehy has a fabrial from Navani that he calls a compass, and states that he thinks they’re going in the right direction. To quote the text again:
“You think?” Shallan asked.
“This device points to something far in the distance. Something the Sibling called ‘the Grand Knell, source of the Current, the death of a god.’ ”
“Not at all ominous,” Shallan said, sitting up.
The source of the Current? What the what? And the death of a god? Surely they’re not going to where Honor died. Right? Would that be in Shadesmar? Admittedly, I’m grasping at straws, but what other god has died on Roshar?
Adolin is worried about Gallant so Drehy goes out to find him. The Ryshadium is alive and well, and Drehy fetches the others, as he says there’s something they’ve got to see. And they find musicspren. They’re in the shape of glowing horses, in a herd all around Gallant. They definitely look different than the translucent ribbons they appear as in the Physical Realm.
Not a horse, but something that evoked the same impression: with a long, smooth neck and flowing strands of hair. Glowing, lithe, ethereal.
Gallant sees Adolin and gallops toward him. Reunited and it feels so good! The musicspren turn to leave, all except one, which turns to look back at Adolin. Then it goes to him and puts out its muzzle, which Adolin lifts a hand to touch. I’m like… Sureblood? Is that you? This was my first thought. What about you, Sanderfans?
The last section of the chapter sees the party sneaking forward to get a glimpse of what the Heavenly Ones had been guarding. Much to their dismay, they find hundreds of singer ships headed to Azimir. Dun-dun-dunnnn.
So what do you think about this week’s chapters? Will Syl actually teach Kaladin to read and write? I personally think he has no interest in that kind of thing. Is there yet another contest besides the contest of champions and Szeth’s contest in Shinovar? Does it concern Kaladin and the Wind? Kaladin working with Ishar? WHAT IS IT? I feel that we have no further evidence, this week, of who the writer of the in-world book might be. I know that Jasnah and Sigzil are foremost in many people’s minds, including mine. How about the discovery of the singer fleet in Shadesmar? That was quite a bomb to drop on us at the end of this week’s preview! What do you think will happen there? Let us know in the comments! Can’t wait to discuss these chapters with you!
Lyndsey’s Commentary
The Herald portrayed in all four spots in the arch for chapter ten is Nalan (Nale), Herald of Justice, patron of the Skybreakers. His attributes are Just/Confident and his role is Judge. It seems very odd that Nale’s the Herald of this chapter. He never shows up, nor do any of his Skybreakers, and neither Kal nor Syl seem to be embodying any of the roles or attributes associated with him. I guess we could make a case that Kal’s being quite confident here, but that seems like a stretch.
Chapter eleven features Shalash (Ash), Herald of Beauty and the Lightweavers in all four spots. Her attributes are Creative/Honest, and her role is Artist. It’s pretty clear that Ash is here because this is a Shallan chapter, so this one’s pretty straightforward.
The second moment had happened already. It is when Szeth himself decided to take upon him this quest. The one that would shape all of our futures.
—From Knights of Wind and Truth, page 8
For while the contest of champions was to happen in the East, a different contest was to happen in Shinovar. And one that the Wind swore was equally vital. Perhaps more so.
—From Knights of Wind and Truth, page 8
MORE vital than the contest of Champions with Odium? Well isn’t that an interesting tidbit… What’s going to happen in Shinovar that’s so integral to the survival of the entire Cosmere?
Syl
A woman came to the counter and received prompt service, even deferential. Kaladin watched with annoyance. They treated Syl differently because she was a spren?
There’s a lot of interesting stuff in this chapter regarding Syl and how she’s grown as a person, and how she reacts to others. The librarian in this chapter disregards her and puts her down, and Syl reacts as any young girl, unsure of herself, might—she wilts. That veneer of being “high and mighty” gets stripped away and we see her for who she really is. She’s only recently begun showing herself to people other than Kaladin and, later, the members of Bridge Four. So suddenly she’s going to start encountering people who don’t treat her like a “little piece of a god,” or a princess. It’s rather telling to see how Syl reacts. She doesn’t immediately tell the librarian off. She doesn’t ignore her. She wilts.
“Changing is what takes the effort.” She gestured to herself. “This is me, my shape, my face—it’s who I am. I can change to be other things—bits of nature are easier. But eventually I will snap back to this shape. The same one I have in Shadesmar. That changes only in exceptional circumstances.”
I find it interesting that she makes this distinction, considering how much we’ve seen her personality shift and change over the course of the series so far. I’m sure Drew will delve more into the “I am who I perceive myself to be” aspect of Investiture and I wouldn’t want to cramp his style, so I’ll leave that in his capable hands. But when it comes to thinking about Syl’s character arc and personality, which is my purview, I’ll say that there are some interesting parallels here between her physical self and her emotional self.
Kal/ Syl
Syl wilted, and Kaladin immediately felt a jolt. His annoyance at this woman simmered into something hotter. He opened his mouth, a dozen different options springing to mind. She wanted a scene? Oh, he could make a scene.
“You are absolutely adorable sometimes.”
It sure does look as though this ship is setting sail, doesn’t it? I’m still not a fan, personally. I’m sure there’s a contingent of fans out there who are jumping in glee and more power to you, my friends. I’m legitimately happy for you. Just not my personal cup o’ tea. I think, for me, I’ve just always seen Syl as a younger sister type to Kal. This reminds me of that anime trope of the boy who gets a new stepsister and suddenly a romance develops. Is there anything wrong with it? Technically, no. It just squicks me out.
Kaladin
Makes me wonder if you’re the same, and have some reason you’re so angry and unpleasant.
Seeing Kal shift from righteous anger to empathy is very telling. I think a lot of us know that feeling of wanting to jump to a friend or lover’s aid, to defend them and stop someone from hurting them. But Kal stops himself before he can say anything hurtful and instead pivots to doing what he does best—helping people to heal. He opens the librarian’s eyes to the fact that she’s being mean and spiteful, but he does it in a relatively gentle way that allows her the opportunity to change rather than shutting her down and turning her defensive. That’s quite a feat, honestly, and it speaks to his recent efforts to counsel people and help guide them to heal themselves.
Adolin/ Shallan
“I created Radiant,” Shallan whispered. “I could have created you… Maybe that’s why you’re so wonderful.”
These two continue to be such a breath of fresh air, relationship-wise, though I do feel like the relationship is a little one-sided. Adolin does a lot of supporting and cheering Shallan on, and she doesn’t outwardly do a lot of supporting back. And I don’t mean saving his life, because she does do that a fair amount. I mean emotional support. I don’t recall her ever talking to him about his troubles with his dad for instance… but then, my memory’s notoriously bad. Can any of you chickens out there think of times when Shallan was emotionally supportive of Adolin?
Shallan
For years, Shallan had hated herself. Now she merely feared herself. That was progress.
The first step towards acceptance, I suppose.
Adolin
“What about Gallant?” Adolin asked, his voice pained. “Will his Lashing still be working?”
I know that Gallant is more than a simple pet, but I still find it immensely relatable how worried Adolin is for his fur-baby. (Let’s be honest here though, if it were a human he knew, Adolin would be just as worried, because he’s the Best Boy.)
Drew’s Commentary: Invested Arts and Theories
Back to two chapters this week, and one of them is fairly light on magic—much more focused on character moments, as Lyn’s discussed above. Thankfully, the second chapter is an absolute doozy when it comes to Investiture, Realmatics, and the frankly weird. Thanks for that, Shallan.
“You have learned substantiation?”
While I gave one possible theory last week for what the heck it was that Shallan did when she stabbed Abidi the Fused, we get some information here that might allow for a different interpretation. “Substantiation” sounds like something much more in line with the Surge of Transformation, rather than simply using Lightweaving/Illumination to essentially create laser weapons.
It’s clearly not the same thing as Soulcasting, especially given Abidi’s comment that the Radiants had “forbidden” substantiation in the past. Perhaps this is a unique resonance between Transformation and Illumination—perhaps also the sort of thing that isn’t easily achievable for normal Radiants. But Shallan is Shallan, and these recent chapters have made it abundantly clear that her double bond situation allows for all sorts of weirdness.
Shallan! a voice said in her mind.
Maybe this book should’ve been titled Voices and Truth, because there sure seem to be a bunch of different mysterious voices already. Shallan doesn’t think this is Pattern or Testament, and based on the sequence of events here, it almost seems like it’s Adolin. Shallan has demonstrated Spiritual Connection to people in the past, via her art, so maybe she’s developing a Cognitive Connection to Adolin? Was it a precursor to Mishram speaking, moments later? Or maybe this is Shardplate spren talking to her… We still don’t really know what the deal is with Shallan’s Plate, despite hints as far back as Oathbringer and a major truth unlocked in Rhythm of War.
As last week highlighted, Shallan is not progressing in a normal manner, even for a Lightweaver—the “I’m terrified” truth unlocked her substantiation ability, at least in some manner, but she already used “I’m terrified” as a truth back in The Way of Kings. It’s more and more apparent that Shallan is often taking one step forward and then taking a half step back.
…the Grand Knell, source of the Current, the death of a god.
Well then. This definitely feels like it should be referring to the distant white sun in Shadesmar, with clouds streaking out from it. But it opens up all kinds of questions, at the same time. The Current of what? Which god’s death? Is it Honor, or maybe even Adonalsium?
And last but not least:
Eventually the herd moved off, giving Gallant nuzzles before going. All except one, who lingered, looking over its shoulder at Adolin.
Yeah, that’s definitely Sureblood.
Fan Theories
brinton_k over on Reddit had it spot-on last week after Shallan’s party was attacked: “Now that the Azimir Oathgate is allowing people to transfer to Shadesmar, I wonder if this is something Odium can make use of. I’ve been thinking that Odium might strike Azimir through the pass along the Yulay-Azir border, but what if he strikes through Shadesmar instead? Notum has said that the enemy has ‘full control of the Shadesmar seas.’ Perhaps the reason that Shallan and Adolin’s party is attacked is because they were about to see Odium’s fleet closing in and the Fused wanted to stop them from sending warning.” Did anyone else call this happening, with the singers attacking through Shadesmar?
Also over on Reddit, regarding the author of the in-world book, Okush said: “What if the epigraph author is grown up Lift? Writing this history in the back half of the series.
That Edgedancer comment makes me think… also the comments about knowing the Wind as a child… feels more like a Lift thing rather than a Jasnah thing.” Could Lift become studious enough as she ages to turn into a historian, philosopher, and writer?
Regarding Shallan manifesting Radiant, Redditor Royal-Foundation6057 said: “I actually think what Shallan does manifesting radiant might not require multiple bonds. It seems like you could accomplish this with a combination of light weaving and soul casting.” To which valgerth replies: “I came here just to be hype about this specific thing. That was my theory since Oathbringer.” Do you think this line of thinking has any merit, Sanderfans? There’s more discussion there and you can check it out here.
Along the same lines, Hirinjay had this to say about Shallan here on Reactor: “For Shallan, when else were her illusions more solid? I can’t recall.
Be. Drehy.
Woah. I wonder what else her Identity manipulation can do? Especially with her double Cryptic bond. Both of her Surges are strongly connected to Identity, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a lot more powerful stuff coming out of her.”
In one Discord server, “Seraphem” has this to say about the earlier epigraph stating people are less familiar with spren: “What if the author of this is one of the Fused, and they are talking about back in the Dawnsinger days as when that was common?”
This is a fascinating possibility, and not one that gets brought up often—if at all. It does make sense that the Fused would have a different, perhaps lesser, relationship with spren on Roshar after they made their deal with Odium.
We’ll be keeping an eye on the comment sections of posts about this article on various social media platforms and may include some of your comments/speculation (with attribution) on future weeks’ articles! Keep the conversation going, and PLEASE remember to spoiler-tag your comments on social media to help preserve the surprise for those who choose to wait for the full release. See you next Monday with chapters twelve and thirteen!
After Chapter 10, I’d bet my money Syl is the author of the epigraphs. She wants to be Kaladin’s scribe and it fits her voice.
I’m reading these apparently 23 days after you. But I completely agree with you Brian.
Totally on this with you. The person doesn’t write the way they talk – especially if learning to write
You think it fits her voice? I actually don’t think it fits her voice at all. Right now I think a Fused/singer might be the best guess, that or Jasnah.
I’m on the Jasnah train, myself.
I feel like it makes sense – we observe the head librarian being quite judgemental of Syl’s attempts to write, and then almost as an inversion we see Kal not being judgemental of the librarian for her behaviour, but looking beyond it.
(also, why is the library the place where scribes can get their stationery?! That makes no sense to me.)
As for the Grand Knell – I also feel like this refers to the death of Adonalsium. What is the Current, though? Does this have something to do with how the spiritual realm connects to the cognitive?
I think it’s more of the two sides of judgement. The librarian is being judgmental, in the subjective and unfair way. While Kaladin judged the librarian in a fair and understanding way. His judgement to her was, she is afraid of something and it is eating her up, and she should talk to someone about it.
“also, why is the library the place where scribes can get their stationery?! That makes no sense to me.”
I feel like it makes sense. If you go back to before there was a printing industry libraries were often where books were copied.
Interestingly they seem to be developing printing on Roshar. It feels slightly disappointing. I had hoped their mass production of written works would be something unique like mass spanreed use. I suppose it could still happen.
lol that would have been amazing.
Maybe I’m crazy, but could the grand knell and current be the cognitive side of the origin and highstorms?
I was thinking the same thing!
Yea, not a fan of deepening Syladin, but what can you do?
Could this “Knell” be the Origin of Storms?
Dalinar’s agreement with Odium was as full of holes as I feared. This isn’t even any new deviousness of Todium, this attack was planned and prepared by Rodium.
OTOH, the Fused continue to suck and can’t kill a single squire even when Kaladin is not around and numbers are in their favor.
There seems to be a strong Connection between Shallan and BAM. I always thought that Davars were connected to her somehow – before WaT I thought that they might have been hereditary guardians of her prison and possibly descendants of Melishi. The latter of which is still possible.
Does it make sense that a librarian would snub Kaladin and Syl so soon after they saved the whole Urithiru?
to be fair about the fused sucking, Leshwi was pretty much established as one of their best officers, and there didn’t seem to be that many mad Heavenly ones. and as we see from the pursuer and venli’s time with them, alot of them are arrogant. They have severly underestimated the Radiants, and the ones who didn’t are now gone, having fled with Leshwi.
@Isilel. I agree with you. I do not like a physical Kalad/Syl relationship. It should not go beyond human/spren.
I agree completely on this.
RoW chapter 34! They talk about his frustrations with Dalinar’s expectations, and being torn between loving him yet unable to stand him. That’s the only time I can think of, though, Adolin definitely does more of the heavy liftng.
She also was the one in Oathbringer who convinced Adolin to tell the truth about Sadeas death and that he didn’t need to do everything he says to be the perfect son. Dalinar also accused her of changing him in Rhythm of war when he chastiesed him for having his boots on the table. Clearly, they have talked during the time skip.
“Eventually the herd moved off, giving Gallant nuzzles before going. All except one, who lingered, looking over its shoulder at Adolin.”
Would this be Sureblood’s Spren?
Great chapters! I LOL’d in ch 10 and teared up in ch 11. Thanks for the commentary.
I’m positive that it was Sureblood’s spren.
So are the Ryshadium more like Radiants, who bond with spren, or like Fused, who occupy their hosts? Based on this chapter, given how they overlap and Adolin saw something familiar in the Musicspren’s eyes, it feels more like the latter, but that’s a little dark for the Ryshadium. Maybe it’s more of a merging of the two.
As in the Musicspren once bonded to Sureblood.
Also: “A part of her mind acknowledged that it was incredibly—even supernaturally—convenient to find the exact bead she needed so quickly.”
I take this as more evidence that Shallan is leveling up. However, I’m curious about the lack of Creation Spren showing up nearby. I had assumed Creation Spren would become her plate. Maybe she hasn’t reached the right level for Plate? Or maybe it has something to do with Shadesmar? Although, Kaladin was oddly attracting Windspren in Shadesmar in Oathbringer. I remember it was remarked upon, since windscreen are rare in Shadesmar.
They can’t become plate in Shadesmar, I think.
Unless the beads are the creationspren? I’m not sure how that would work either. But in the last chapter, and in this one, it seemed like the beads moved on their own. Shallan felt like they were responding to her, but not like she was really controlling them. And creationspren easily take the shapes of different objects. I can imagine them becoming the concept of the room or sphere she’s looking for.
We have seen creationspren hanging around Shallan in the last book.
While sketching on the barge: “She’d attracted a few spren out of the ocean. Creationspren, which here were little swirling shapes of changing colors of light. They evoked different impressions, often faces.” (RoW, Chapter 30)
So we know there are creationspren living in the bead ocean. Could they control it? Possess the beads somehow?
And when she was sketching the starspren: “A few creationspren peeked out of her satchel, little swirling bits of color. When had those hidden in there?” (RoW, Chapter 34)
These, at least, I always thought of as her armor spren, following her around as she neared her Fourth Ideal, like we saw for both Dalinar and Kaladin in Oathbringer.
Didn’t she have beads in her satchel because she’d been studying? I like the thought that the creationspren could maybe be inhabiting the beads, and when they bleed through to the Physical they appear in the form of whatever bead they’re inhabiting at the time?
My comments and questions about Chapter 10
· An ominous sounding epigraph if there ever was one. I believe one of the Sleepers was the author of the blurb on the back of TWOK book (4 important individuals; one of which could destroy the world). I had thought that was in reference to Dalinar. He could have been Odium’s champion, which in all likelihood would have doomed the human’s (and most Singers’) fate on Roshar. This epigraph might be evidence that the person who would destroy the world would be Szeth, not Dalinar. Also, it is possible that a Sleeper is the author of the in-world book Knights of Wind and Truth. Right now, my first choice is Sigzil; second is a Sleeper.
· A new title for Kaladin. Stormblessed; Highmarshall; heir to the leaders of the Knights Radiant & Urithiru; Pack Human. I hope Syl never looses her sense of humor. Kaladin is the first human chull. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
· Brandon’s inner young teenage psyche wrote the part of the dialogue where Syl discusses human anatomy.
· This chapter just reinforces my wish that Brandon would right a non-canonical scene where Adolin and the late Joan Rivers are reporting live from the Oscar’s red carpet, discussing the different outfits the actors and actresses wear. Syl will serve as the model when Adolin and Joan discuss each interesting outfit.
· I would be shocked if Chapter 10 turns out to be important to the plot of this book. If that is the case, we could have easily done without this chapter. However, I think the reason Brandon included the chapter is more for him than the readers. Chapters like this seem as a way for Brandon include a lighter tone in what could be an overall darker, heavier storyline. If I were an author, this chapter may help me recharge myself as I was writing the story. A small break from the otherwise seriousness of the plot. A type of Interlude for the characters themselves rather than an Interlude for the readers.
I don’t think it’s a chapter we can’t do without. There are moments in there that feel important, Kaladin further developing into a therapist, where he might start learning himself that it’s not just people affected by war he could help, but all sorts of people from different backgrounds. I also feel it’s an important chapter for Syl as well.
Also this Brandon interlude you mentioned, I have to disagree with you there. I feel this is important for readers as well. Because we’re seeing Kaladin in a different light. We’re spending time with him in a way where he isn’t on high alert, holding a spear, being too hard on himself. We’re seeing a Kaladin that is, for once, actually happy and content with what he’s feeling. I like this chapter for that alone. Though, I do agree with you, that these early Kaladin chapters are the calm before the storm. We are bracing for a darker storyline.
I think it adds to Kal’s therapist arc and further sets up Syl as becoming more human (and possibly the epigraph author as I proposed a few weeks ago)
As Marbelcal mentions, the author wasn’t present on the quest. Do you think Kaladin and Syl are separated somehow when he leaves for Shinovar?
In the ch 6 epigraph the author suggests they were not present in Shinovar and had to rely on 2 witnesses. So, what happened to separate Syl and Kaladin?
My comments to Chapter 11
· I hope we learn why Substantiation was forbidden to the Lightweavers (or at least the Fused believe it was forbidden)
· Too bad. I had hoped Shallan was able to kill Adibi. If anyone deserved to be killed, it is Adibi. I guess we will see more of him in KoWaT. Probably Adibi will be to Shallan what the Pursuer was to Kaladin in RoW (from a plot perspective/ Shallan’s main antagonist in this book)
· The title of Chpater 11 is “Musicspren.” IIRC, we have seen a type of musicspren around Ryshadium. I believe the voice that Shallan hears in her mind and then sends the impression of Adolin is Gallant speaking mentally to Shallan.
· Shallan will need to somehow convince Ba-Ado-Mishram that Shallon will free her with no strings attached; other than Ba-Ado-Mishram not going on her mission of vengeance against human kind. Almost as easy as finding Ba-Ado-Mishram’s prison will be.
· I think the horse spren that came up to Adolin was the spren of/reincarnation of Sureblood.
Have we seen any radiant level up while in Shadesmar before? I wonder if that has an effect on Shallan’s powers? Perhaps even a persistent effect after she leaves the realm?
Regarding a time when Shallan was emotionally supportive of Adolin: when he is investigating Sadeus murder in Oathbringer she sees that he’s troubled and reassures him that he is like his father. Not the best thing to say but she was being supportive.
Now. Theory time. Early on in Oathbringer we learn that Shallans brothers are on their way to Urithiru after Mraize and the ghostbloods has ‘rescued’ them from the civil war in Ja Kaved. Shallan goes through a moment of crises and wonders if her brothers are real or if she made them up. We’ve now seen her question Adolin. We know that Shallan is far from stable and knowing how Sanderson likes to do his foreshadowing I strongly suspect that SOMEONE is a manifestation of Shallan’s mind/powers. Whoever it is may or may not be visible to others. There’s also a question of whether it is visible, it’s there some connection being manifested to convince others that they have known the manifestation for a long time. I don’t know who it could be for certain but I for people that would be impactful to Shallan, I am leaning towards Mraize being a manifestation. I’m not convinced and there’s plenty of reasons why it couldn’t be him, but emotionally it would make sense.
How wild would it be if MRAIZE is the one who is made up? Sure, we know Ilaytil is real, because Kelsier mentions her, and Venli and Ash, and Lift have all interacted with him, but he does seem to sneak his way into places that he shouldn’t be and is always whispering in Shallan’s ear. It could be that Mraize does exist, but the one that Shallan interacts with is an illusion after their first meeting, another attempt to ease her guilt
We know that Mraize is real, there was an Interlude with his washerwoman and it was far away from Shallan. He also interacted with Lift and Raboniel while Shallan was at Lasting Integrity in RoW.
Hey Zaineph, I’m just wondering, very off topic. But has it been raining heavily in your area? (Just wondering if we’re in the same country, your name is kind of a giveaway.)
But anyway: What you said is pretty intense. I would have said that maybe Adolin just died and the Adolin we have in this chapter is a manifestation. But the musicspren looking at Adolin kinda wrecked that possibility. Would have been interesting though.
I’m still on hanging on the idea that everything we know about Shallan is not true. This includes the flashbacks. Her brothers, everyone, just just some manifestation of her, and that she’s actually the Herald Chanarach. I know — I know, it’s unlikely, but I’m just playing. lol
except we have seen Balat’s thoughts in a interlude. at the very least: he was alive during way of kings.
Also when Adolin needed to tell Dalinar that he killed Sadeas in Oathbringer.
I feel like she manifested BAM in this chapter
That’s interesting. It could be a way for them to retrieve BAM’s gemstone without actually going into the Spiritual Realm. I did recall Brandon saying he wanted to keep that place mysterious.
I’m not so big with the whole Kaladin and Syl thing too. I would have wanted their relationship to remain platonic. No idea since when was Brandon planning this, but honestly, the day the official ship arrived was in RoW (as how I felt it). I’m also on the boat that Syl is the author of Wind and Truth. I think it makes perfect sense now. She’s writing and she was at Shinovar to witness the events that unfolded there. This kind of makes me feel Kaladin will not die and continue to inherit the throne of Urithiru. Queen Syl. heh.
I recall Dalinar is also one of Brandon’s first characters he’s developed. So whatever what may happen to him on this book, we might still see him in future Cosmere novels.
I am still of the mind that Shallan’s progression in the Oaths/Truths is on 2 parallel courses – one with Pattern and the other one with Testament. So when she “levels up”, I am uncertain where that gets her from a progress perspective. What level she is on with either might be hard to interpret (and how that might impact her abilities).
I also feel that levelling up with Testament might be harder, given her current nature. As we saw last week with Shallan’s “I am terrified.” – perhaps she did not have the proper intent the first time, she was stating it a second time for a second spren (Pattern vs Testament), or she had trouble saying/progressing this Truth with Testament beforehand.
I do think some of the challenges Shallan is facing is due to Testament’s current nature (on top of the whole “double spren” thing).
If Testament is able to progress like Maya, perhaps we would see a greater level of control and understanding of Shallan’s abilities.
I worry that Syl is going to be Ishy’s first successful attempt to bring a spren into the physical world
I’m finally gonna throw my hat into the ring after sitting on this theory for a few weeks: The author of the epigraphs is El. It makes sense to me, he is a scholar and a philosopher who would be very interested in any major events that happened concerning the nature of Roshar, humanity, and the spren as the epitaphs seem to imply.
Also. . . more crumbs for Sylladin! Yay! I’ve been quietly rooting for this since WoK when I saw well they fit together. I know some people are weirded out by it but it always made sense to me: Brandon spent the last 4 books bashing into the reader’s heads the fact that a big reason why Radient Spren go for the Nahel Bond in the first place is that it lets them grow beyond being sapient fragments of power and become more “person-like”. And romance is a pretty common part of being a person. That, and I never clocked their relationship as “siblinglike”, it always reminded me more of something that’s kind of a cliche in fantasy like “magical soulmates” or (to put it in D&D terms) a Feypact Warlock with a partner-like relationship with his patron.
I’ve always seen Kal and Syl as best buds. I wanted their relationship to stay platonic. But after RoW, that ship felt very strong–particularly when Kal said his Fourth. There was something there.
I always thought that Kaladin looked on Syl as his daughter/sister. I don’t think I would like it if they are Shipped.
I look at soulcasting as transforming one kind of matter into another where as substantiation is converting energy into matter (like nuclear fission or fusion which can be dangerous and hence forbidden??).
I wonder if it was Dabbid who put the pebble in Kal’s rucksack? Sibling reached out to him in their weakened state, so why not someone from the Spiritual realm/Beyond? Apparently everyone is hearing voices, Kal is hearing the Wind, the author of the inworld book is talking with the Wind, Shallan and Adolin hear Mishram in Shadesmar……….
My inner 13 year old is fine with Brandon’s humor. The Evil Librarian and chull parts work just as well as divide by zero and no mating.
So, all this talk about Syladin makes me think of Pinocchio. And now Shallon can alter reality while Ishtar is trying to make spren “substantiate?” in the physical realm. This all feels related somehow.
Szeth stated he wants to cleanse Shinovar of evil. NightBlood could certainly handle that. But is that the challenge the author refers to?
Thought I’d add my two cents – based on the events of Sunlit man and Dawnshard,could it be that the events on shinovar will be about the dawnshard chsnging hosts? This is one of the few things I can think of that goes beyond the direct fate pf Roshar and might have even mote dire consequences cosmere wise. Or,given that Hoid is involved, there is a third “battle”,along with that??
My thought on who the writer of Knights of Wind and Truth is maybe it is Syl. But that may just be because she just picked up a pen. But she does have a front row seat for the contents.
Using beads as a blueprint reminds me of Shallan’s conversation with Beryl in RoW where they talked about how the Lightweavers found it easier to soulcast obsidian into seed if they already had a seed with them to convince the stone to turn into, which Shallan noted isn’t how Jasnah does it.
I wonder if part of what she’s doing with the beads here could be because Shallan is doing things more as a Lightweaver would. It feels appropriate that she’s stronger when being truer to who she is rather than trying to follow Jasnah’s way.
“creating a substance” hahaha.. substantiation is making her holograms tangible, being substantial. Like she did with radiant being able to actually physically touch things, like Syl did with the pen. Not summoning some random substance.
Totally makes sense they’d nerf and limit that power, serious potential there.
Really crazy how much Fortune is around her, idk if it’s her Connection to BAM, having two bonds..I love how intense BAM is, really adds weight to curing the deadeyes if releasing her is insanely dangerous. Though Kelek knew what she was capable of and still was down to do it.
She tapped into Fortune last time too since she picked up the bead of Kholinar, just like Jasnah did, which should have been really unlikely.
Definitely not Jasnah or Sigzil with the epigraphs, it speaks knowingly about the ancient Winds characteristics like they were present, idk definitely seems more like it’s Syl, considering what this sets up and she’s going to be present for their buddy cop adventure in shinovar.
I loved that Shallan attempted to make the beads into a raft in OB but didn’t have the skill, but she can do it now.
Aw man Surebloods spren :(
Time to pull out my tinfoil hat and really speculate: we know that Shallan has been drawing upon Fortune to see Ba-Ado-Mishram in her drawings. We also know that Mishram was able to Connect to all the singers and grant them forms as part of the false desolation. So what if Mishram’s whole thing is that she is a creature of Connection, both making it and recognizing existing ones to put to other use. Not necessarily in the same manner as a Bondsmith, as the Unmade are not really analogous to Radiants in their abilities/powers the way the Fused are (aside: though I do wonder if El is the sole Fused Bondsmith-analogue, and he’s forbidden rhythms because he would end up inadvertently forcing all adjacent singers/Fused to attune the rhythm he is attuning), but at least aware of the power of Connection. So my theory is that Shallan’s use of Fortune to see Ba-Ado-Mishram has formed a nascent Connection that Mishram has siezed upon and strengthened, so as to be able to take partial control over Shallan’s ability to form shapes out of the beads and form her own face and start yelling. This would also explain why, when Adolin stabs her face, the entire cavern disintegrated — the face and the cavern were both part of Shallan’s control of the beads (suitably modified by Mishram’s influence).
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What if the author of Wind and Truth is Sazed?
I’m not sure if anyone is still reading these, but in Oathbreaker, when they finally translate the Dawnchant, it includes the line “For their [humans] betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind.” Now Kal is hearing the Wind, and we know stone is sacred to the Shin. I’m wondering if something about their quest will involve Wind and Stone again being vocal presences on Rosher.
You can ‘subscribe’ to get emails about new posts, so I suspect a number of people are still reading.
That’s a good quote to pull up, which resonates with the arguments made previously about “stone” being the origin of the Shin’s Stone Shamanism, and “wind” being what Kaladin has been hearing here (and the subject of the epigraphs). Which of course invites questions about “spren” and whether it ends up being some remnant of Adonalsium that can be resurrected (or “united”) and have substantial implications for the greater Cosmere. But I don’t think we’ve seen any clear hints as to what that spren is or how it will happen. And of course there’s also a possibility that it’s just the generic “spren” in general.
I had no idea! This is exactly what I’ve been missing from the ‘new’ Tor. (I knew I could click the ‘get notified of replies’ on my own comments but not for posts as a whole!
I think that the author of the epigraphs is syl many many years from now. She wants to be a scrib in these chapters. It makes sense that she would eventually become a historian and a scholar. This completely feels like Brandon laying the groundwork for the second ark
I laughed out loud at Abidi the Obnoxious!
Anyway, yeah, I feel the same about Syl/Kal (not a fan) but I already elaborated on that. I feel like anything I say in these posts is just repeating myself. :)
“Could Lift become studious enough as she ages to turn into a historian, philosopher, and writer?”
Maybe not, but I definitely believe she is “Lift” enough to call herself those things!